The purpose and effect is to provide guidance and clarity to the public and Florida Forest Service State Forest Managers regarding the use of managed lands. Revisions provide guidance and clarity on the matters of vehicular usage, pets, service ...
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND CONSUMER SERVICES
RULE NOS.:RULE TITLES:
5I-4.002Purpose and Definitions
5I-4.003Vehicular, Animal and Pedestrian Control
5I-4.005Protection of Managed Lands
5I-4.006Recreational Activities and Facilities
5I-4.008Vendors; Authorizations; Fees
5I-4.011Penalties for Violations
PURPOSE AND EFFECT: The purpose and effect is to provide guidance and clarity to the public and Florida Forest Service State Forest Managers regarding the use of managed lands. Revisions provide guidance and clarity on the matters of vehicular usage, pets, service animals, vendors, and access. Additional purposes and effects are to provide flexibility to allow certain activities on managed lands with written permission which are otherwise prohibited; to provide more flexibility to District and Center Managers to allow extended camping days and use of hunt camps during non-hunting seasons; to increase the penalties for violations from $500 to $1,000 to be consistent with Section 590.14, F.S., and to adopt an updated fee schedule.
SUMMARY: This rulemaking adopts the revisions needed to make the rules clear to people using State Forests, and to the Florida Forest Service State Forest Managers.
SUMMARY OF STATEMENT OF ESTIMATED REGULATORY COSTS AND LEGISLATIVE RATIFICATION: The Agency has determined that this will not have an adverse impact on small business or likely increase directly or indirectly regulatory costs in excess of $200,000 in the aggregate within one year after the implementation of the rule. A SERC has not been prepared by the Agency.
The agency has performed an economic analysis of all the fee revisions and has determined they will not meet the SERC threshold.
Any person who wishes to provide information regarding a statement of estimated regulatory costs, or provide a proposal for a lower cost regulatory alternative must do so in writing within 21 days of this notice.
RULEMAKING AUTHORITY: 570.07(23), 589.011(4), 589.071, 589.12 FS.
LAW IMPLEMENTED: 589.011(3), 589.071, 590.14 FS.
IF REQUESTED WITHIN 21 DAYS OF THE DATE OF THIS NOTICE, A HEARING WILL BE SCHEDULED AND ANNOUNCED IN THE FAR.
THE PERSON TO BE CONTACTED REGARDING THE PROPOSED RULE IS: Steve Bohl, 3125 Conner Blvd., Tallahassee, FL 32399-1650, (850)681-5871
THE FULL TEXT OF THE PROPOSED RULE IS:
5I-4.002 Purpose and Definitions.
The purpose of this chapter is to provide information regarding the utilization of lands and facilities managed or controlled by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, Florida Forest Service. The following words have the meaning indicated:
(1) ACCESS: The Florida Forest Service designated entrance or access to or from managed lands by the general public.
(2)(1) ALL-TERRAIN VEHICLE (ATV): Any motorized off-highway vehicle as specified in Sections 261.03, 316.2074, and 317.0003, F.S. 50 inches (1270 mm) or less in width, having a dry weight of 900 pounds (410 kg) or less, traveling on three or four low-pressure tires, designed by the manufacturer for use by one or two riders, having a seat or saddle designed to be straddled by the rider(s), and having handlebars for steering control.
(3)(2) BICYCLE TRAIL: A designated trail on which human-powered, pedal-driven bicycles cycles are allowed.
(4)(3) DEVELOPED CAMPGROUND: An overnight developed area, other than a hunt camp or primitive camp, designated for overnight camping which may provide provides the user with conveniences such as water or electric hook-ups at each site, and full flush restrooms with showers.
(5)(4) CAMP ZONE: An overnight camping area included as part of a trail system. Camp zones have no facilities and are not accessible from designated roads. Fees are not charged.
(6)(5) CARRYING CAPACITY: The maximum number of persons, motor vehicles, off-highway vehicles, horses or watercraft permitted within any designated area or trail at any one time without degrading any of the natural resource values.
(7)(6) DAY-USE AREA: An established area designated for public recreational activities during daylight hours only.
(8)(7) DEPARTMENT: The Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services.
(9)(8) DESIGNATED ROAD: Any land surface area, unpaved or paved or unpaved, named or numbered, open to the public operating motor vehicles or non-motorized or motorized vehicles.
(10) DESIGNATED TRAIL: A specific trail on which particular uses are allowed as specified by the Service and which is appropriately denoted and maintained for those uses.
(11)(9) GROUP CAMP: A designated primitive or developed camping area designed to accommodate organized groups for overnight visits. Authorization will be given a determination that the proposed use will adversely affect managed lands.
(12)(10) HIKING TRAIL: A designated trail on which only pedestrian traffic is allowed.
(13)(11) HORSE: Any member of the equine family.
(14)(12) HORSE TRAIL: A designated trail on which only horse or pedestrian traffic is allowed.
(15)(13) HUNT CAMP: An area consisting of designated primitive campsites that require a Hunt Camp Permit for the entire length of a specific hunt (e.g. Archery, General Gun, Muzzleloader, Small Game or Spring Turkey) and is available only to properly licensed hunters.
(16)(14) MANAGED LAND(S): Any land, water body, or facility managed, controlled, or occupied by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, Florida Forest Service.
(17)(15) MOTOR VEHICLE: An automobile, motorcycle, truck, trailer, semi-trailer, truck tractor and semi-trailer combination, or any other vehicle operated on the roads of this state, used to transport persons or property, and propelled by power other than muscular power, but the term does not include traction engines, road rollers, such vehicles as run only upon track, bicycles, or mopeds.
(18)(16) MULTI-USE TRAIL: A trail shared by more than one user group.
(19)(17) NATURE TRAIL: A hiking trail to be used for environmental or forest education.
(20)(18) NON-MOTORIZED VEHICLE: Any non-motorized wheeled conveyance, intended for the transportation of persons or materials, whether human-powered, drawn or towed.
(21)(19) OFF-HIGHWAY MOTORCYCLE (OHM) – Any motor vehicle used off the roads or highways of this state that has a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and is designed to travel with not more than two wheels in contact with the ground, but excludes a tractor or a moped.
(22)(20) OFF-HIGHWAY VEHICLE (OHV) – Any ATV, two rider ATV, ROV or OHM that is used for recreation and that is used off the roads or highways of this state and is not registered and licensed for highway use under Chapter 320, F.S.
(23)(21) ORGANIZED GROUP: Any organization or collection of persons using managed lands for the same purpose in an organized or communal fashion.
(24)(22) PRIMITIVE CAMPS: Designated oOvernight areas that have limited facilities, such as site pads, tables, standing or ground grills, and sometimes non-flush toilets.
(25)(23) PERSON: Any individual, child, firm, association, joint venture, partnership, estate, trust, business trust, syndicate, fiduciary, corporation, and all other groups or combinations.
(26)(24) PET: An animal which is easily tamed or domesticted and kept primarily for companionship and is not a service animal. Any domesticated animal, fowl, reptile or other living thing, except seeing-eye or hearing-ear dogs, which is maintained as a household or family pet.
(27)(25) Recreational Off-highway Vehicle (ROV): Any motorized recreational off-highway vehicle as specified in Sections 261.03, and 317.0003, F.S. 64 inches or less in width, having a dry weight of 2,000 pounds or less, designed to travel on four or more non-highway tires, having nonstraddle seating and a steering wheel, and manufactured for recreational use by one or more persons. The term “ROV” does not include a golf cart as defined in Sections 320.01(22) and 316.003(68), F.S., or a low-speed vehicle as defined in Section 320.01(42), F.S.
(28)(26) RECREATIONAL VEHICLE: A motor vehicle designed to provide temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, or travel use, which has its own propulsion or is mounted on or towed by another motor vehicle.
(29)(27) SCHEDULE OF FEES: The Florida Forest Service is authorized under Section 589.011(3), F.S., to set and charge fees for the use or operation of facilities on state forest or any lands leased to the Service for management purposes. A list of the current fees can be found in the document entitled “User Fees on Florida Forest Service Managed Lands, July 2015 September 2010” which is hereby adopted and incorporated by reference. This fee schedule can be obtained by contacting any State Forest office, the Florida Forest Service, Bureau of Forest Management, 3125 Conner Blvd., Tallahassee, FL 32399-1650, or by visiting visitng http://www.flrules.org/ http://www.floridaforestservice.com/forest_recreation/fees.html.
(30)(28) SERVICE: Florida Forest Service.
(31) SERVICE ANIMAL: As defined in section 413.08, F.S., means an animal that is trained to perform tasks for an individual with a disability. The tasks may include, but are not limited to, guiding a person who is visually impaired or blind, alerting a person who is deaf or hard of hearing, pulling a wheelchair, assisting with mobility or balance, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, retrieving objects, or performing other special tasks. A service animal is not a pet. In accordance with 28 C.F.R. § 35.104 and 28 C.F.R. § 35.136, a service animal whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support does not qualify a service animal. A service animal must be harnessed, leashed, or tethered, unless these devices interfere with the service animal’s work or the individual’s disability prevents using these devices, and in that case, the individual must maintain control of the animal through voice, signal, or other effective controls.
(32)(29) SWIMMING AREA: The area of waterbody that is roped off for swimming, and may include any part of beach, shore, or other access points leading to the swimming area, as posted by the Service Any area designated by the Service for swimming.
(30) TWO-RIDER ATV: Any ATV that is specifically designed by the manufacturer for a single operator and one passenger.
(33)(31) WATERCRAFT: Any motorized, paddle-propelled or wind-driven means of water-related transportation.
(34)(32) YOUTH GROUP: Any organized group of seven or more youths (under the age of 18) who are affiliated with a recognized not-for-profit organization, accompanied by one or more adult (18 years or older) chaperone(s).
Rulemaking Authority 570.07(23), 589.011(4), 589.071, 589.12 FS. Law Implemented 589.011(3), 589.071, FS. History–New 5-24-92, Amended 1-19-95, 11-6-95, 5-31-04, 3-2-09, 11-23-10, 5-16-12, ________.
5I-4.003 Vehicular, Animal and Pedestrian Control.
(1) through (10) No change.
(11) No person shall bring horses or horse trailers into camping facilities, unless allowed in a designated facility or with written permission granted by the Service except upon showing that special request has been made to, and permission granted by, the Service. The Service will grant permission upon a determination that there is no threat to public safety, or to the condition of the camping facilities and that the horses and horse trailers do not constitute a nuisance.
(12) No person shall ride or lead horses off designated horse trails or field trial runs, or on unnamed or unnumbered forest roads, except upon showing that a special request has been made to, and written permission granted by, the Service. No person shall stage, ride or lead any horse on managed lands except on a designated trail or at a designated trailhead or designated access points. The Service will grant permission upon a determination that there is no threat to public safety or to the condition of these particular areas and those acts do not constitute a nuisance.
(13) No change.
(14) No person shall stage, ride or lead any horse on managed lands except on a designated trail or at a designated trailhead or designated access points. No person shall bring any horse onto managed lands without having in their possession a record of a current negative Coggins test for Equine Infectious Anemia as required by Rule 5C-18.010, F.A.C.
(15) through (17) No change.
(18) Any Service managed lands that are not included in the state Wildlife Management Area system are potential Operation Outdoor Freedom designated areas, in accordance with Section 589.19, F.S.
Rulemaking Authority 589.011(4), 589.071 FS. Law Implemented 589.071 FS. History–New 5-24-92, Amended 1-19-95, 11-6-95, 5-31-04, 5-16-12, _________.
5I-4.005 Protection of Managed Lands.
No person shall:
(1) through (2) No change.
(3) Willfully mark, deface, damage, displace, remove, gain access from, or tamper with any buildings, facilities, bridges, tables, benches, fireplaces, railings, fences, paving or paving materials, water lines or other utilities, permanent or temporary signs, placards or notices, monuments, stakes, posts, boundary markers, equipment, other structures or property located on managed lands.
(4) through (7) No change.
(8) Attach swings, rope, wire, signs, nails or other contrivance, whether permanent or temporary, to any tree, plant, other natural feature, or property within managed lands, unless written permission is granted from the Service.
(9) Cut, carve, mark, uproot, damage, break off limbs or branches, destroy or mutilate, or pick the flowers or seeds of any living or dead plant or tree, unless written permission is granted from the Service.
(10) Pick up or remove dead wood from managed lands, except for collecting firewood to be burned in a designated area in a campground or camp zone, unless written permission is granted from the Service.
(11) Dig in or disturb the natural condition of any area on managed lands, unless written permission is granted from the Service.
(12) Remove any plant life from any managed lands except for educational or research purposes with , and only after written permission granted from the Service. A fee is not charged for this purpose notification to the Service.
(13) through (14) No change.
(15) Engage in any construction activity on managed lands, except as provided herein, unless written permission is granted from the Service.
(16) Operate a commercial enterprise on managed lands, except in limited circumstances where such enterprise provides a compatible service to forest visitors participating in recreation, and only after written permision is granted from notification to the Service, and payment of the applicable fee in accordance with subsection 5I-4.002(29)(27), F.A.C.
(17) through (19) No change.
(20) Leave any item, including but not limited to tents, trailers, vehicles, motorcycles, or other items, in a campsite unattended before or after the registered camping dates on a Florida Forest Service Registration/Receipt, self-service pay envelope, or state forest authorization received from the Florida Forest Service field unit. Unattended items found in an unregistered campsite shall be duly posted to be removed within 48 hours with the owner paying the scheduled fee for each night the item(s) remained at the site. In addition, after the item(s) have been duly posted for removal within 48 hours, such item(s) will be removed at the last known owner’s expense. Any lost or abandoned property on managed lands will be secured for up to 48 hours, and after a reasonable attempt is made to identify the rightful owner, items will be disposed of in accordance with Chapter 705, F.S.
(21) Leave any item within state forest boundary, including but not limited to, licensed vehicles or trailers, any structure of any nature, or any unattended items. Items shall be removed by the person(s) who placed anything within the state forest boundaries. Any lost or abandoned property on managed lands will be secured for up to 48 hours, and after a reasonable attempt is made to identify the rightful owner, items will be disposed of in accordance with Chapter 705, F.S.
Rulemaking Authority 589.011(4) FS. Law Implemented 589.011(4) FS. History–New 5-24-92, Amended 1-19-95, 5-15-95, 11-6-95, 5-31-04, 5-16-12, _________.
5I-4.006 Recreational Activities and Facilities.
(1) Swimming and Sunbathing:
(a) through (c) No change.
(d) Pets are prohibited in swimming areas, unless authorized by the Service.
(e) No change.
(2) through (3) No change.
(4) Camping and Day-Use:
(a) A limited number of camping facilities and day-use areas on managed lands may be reserved in advance.
(b) No change.
(c) No person shall remain in any day-use area during the times it is designated as closed unless written permission is granted from the Service.
(d) The Service reserves the right to set carrying capacities on managed lands in order to protect the natural resources.
(e)(c) Camping within managed lands, except in designated hunt camps, is limited to 14 consecutive days during any 30-day period to prevent any camper from taking up long term camping at any one campsite and possibly displacing other campers. However based upon low occupancy at any campground the district or center manager has the authority to extend campsite use between 15 and 29 consecutive days.
(f)(d) Camping within managed lands where a fee is required is authorized upon payment of that fee.
(g)(e) Except upon special authorization by the Service and upon the Service’s determination that there will be no danger to the health, safety, and welfare of the campgrounds, no more than five persons, with a maximum number of one recreational vehicle and one tent or a maximum number of three two tents, are allowed per campsite.
(h)(f) Visitors of registered campers in developed campgrounds are allowed provided the total number of visitors or their vehicles do not create a nuisance or hazard to other campers, interfere or obstruct pedestrian or vehicular traffic, or interfere with other proper uses of the camping facility.
(g) No pet is allowed on managed lands unless the pet is confined or restrained on a leash no more than ten feet in length. NOTE: Certain portions of managed lands may be posted prohibiting pets.
(i)(h) In accordance with Section 790.15(1), F.S., it is a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in Sections 775.082 and 775.083, F.S., to knowingly discharge a firearm in a state forest, unless a person is lawfully defending life or property or performing official duties requiring the discharge of a firearm or discharging a firearm on public roads or properties expressly approved for hunting by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) or the Florida Forest Service. State forests are public places intended and designed to be frequented or resorted to by the public. State forest camping areas and day-use areas, including, but not limited to, hunt camps and the Croom Motorcycle Area are not approved for hunting with firearms, and the discharge of a firearm in these areas is strictly prohibited. In the Croom Motorcycle Area hunting with bows, crossbows, or air guns is allowed during FWC designated game seasons. On lands designated as wildlife management areas or wildlife and environmental areas firearms may be used as outlined in FWC Administrative Rule 68A-15.004 or 68A-17.004, F.A.C. Note: A person in possession of a valid Concealed Weapon or Firearm License may carry concealed handguns on managed lands (including non-wildlife management areas, camping areas and day-use areas) under the provisions of Section 790.06, F.S., throughout the year, unless otherwise prohibited pursuant to state or federal law.
(j)(i) Checkout time for campers is 2 p.m. unless otherwise posted.
(k)(j) Chainsaw use in camping facilities is prohibited.
(l)(k) Persons who are not registered campers or visitors of registered campers are not allowed to park in camping facilities or use campsites.
(l) No person shall remain in any day-use facility after its designated closing time unless prior notification has been provided to the Service.
(m) Quiet time is 10 p.m. until sunrise.
(n) The Service reserves the right to set carrying capacities on managed lands in order to protect the natural resources.
(n)(o) Organized groups must notify the Service, request reservations from the Service, and have written authorization from the Service to use managed lands, provided authorization may will be given only if absent a determination that the proposed use will not adversely affect managed lands.
(5) Hunt Camps:
(a) No change.
(b) If all hunt camp sites are occupied, then the Service may assign hunters to non-hunt campsites. The district or center manager shall designate the number of No more than five persons that will be allowed per non-hunt campsite and the normal non-hunt campsite scheduled fee for the campsite shall be charged. The district or center manager may seasonally assign underutilized designated campsites or campgrounds as Hunt Camps and charge the applicable Hunt Camp fees.
(c) No change.
(d) Hunt campsite authorizations are to be displayed on the numbered post designating the individual campsite or at a place as designated by the district or center managers.
(e) No change.
(f) These hunt campsites require a Hunt Camp Permit for the entire length of a specific hunt and are available only to properly licensed hunters during hunting seasons. These areas are closed to camping outside of designated hunting seasons, unless written permission is granted by the Service.
(6) Service designated Croom Motorcycle Area at Withlacoochee State Forest and Off-Highway Vehicle areas Trail System at Tates Hell State Forest:
(a) No person shall operate an off-highway vehicle inside the boundaries of the Service designated OHV areas Croom Motorcycle Area at Withlacoochee State Forest and Off-Highway Vehicle Trail System at Tates Hell State Forest unless the vehicle visibly displays a valid Service issued authorization at a location as designated by the Service, permanently attached, motorcycle decal issued by the Service.
(b) No person shall operate an off-highway vehicle within the Service designated OHV areas Croom Motorcycle Area at Withlacoochee State Forest or at the Off-Highway Vehicle Trail System at Tates Hell State Forest between sunset and sunrise.
(c) No change.
(d) No person shall operate an off-highway vehicle within the Service designated OHV areas Croom Motorcycle Area at Withlacoochee State Forest or at the Off-Highway Vehicle Trail System at Tates Hell State Forest unless such vehicle has a muffler system conforming to the requirements of the Florida Highway Patrol Handbook.
(e) No person shall operate an a off-highway vehicle faster than five (5) ten (10) miles per hour inside the Service designated OHV area Croom Motorcycle Area at Withlacoochee State Forest or at the Off-Highway Vehicle Trail System at Tates Hell State Forest camping facilities and day-use parking areas.
(f) No person under the age of 16 shall operate or ride an a off-highway vehicle in the Service designated OHV areas Croom Motorcycle Area at Withlacoochee State Forest or at the Off-Highway Vehicle Trail System at Tates Hell State Forest without the direct supervision of an adult (18 years or older).
(h) A person who has not attained 16 years of age operating an off-highway vehicle must wear eye protection, over-the-ankle boots, and a safety helmet that is approved by the United States Department of Transportation or Snell Memorial Foundation Horses are prohibited in the Croom Motorcycle Area.
(i) Users are required to follow local regulations as it relates to the operation of each off-highway vehicle.
(7) No change.
(8) Pets:
(a) No pet is allowed on managed lands unless the pet is confined or restrained on a leash no more than ten feet in length, except in those areas designated otherwise. NOTE: Certain portions of managed lands may prohibit pets, and certain portions of managed lands may allow unconfined or unrestrained pets; such lands will be posted by the Service. The Service shall make such postings upon a determination that there is no threat to public safety or to the condition of the facilities, and that the pets do not constitute a nuisance.
(b) Nuisances include pets which are noisy, vicious, dangerous, disturbing or intimidating to other persons, and those that damage natural or manmade resources.
(c) Owners shall pick up after their pets and properly dispose of all pet waste in trash receptacles.
(d) Pets must be well behaved at all times and confined in the owner’s camping sleep quarters during designated quiet time.
(e) Pets may be allowed in prohibited areas upon showing that a special request has been made to, and permission granted by, the Service. The Service may grant permission upon a determination that there is no threat to public safety, or to the condition of the facilities and that the pets do not constitute a nuisance within the area of request.
Rulemaking Authority 589.011(4), 589.071, 589.12 FS. Law Implemented 589.071 FS. History–New 5-24-92, Amended 1-19-95, 11-6-95, 5-31-04, 3-2-09, 5-16-12, __________.
5I-4.008 Vendors; Authorizations; Fees.
Any offsite commercial enterprise desiring to provide animals or equipment such as horses, canoes, or bicycles, or other animals or equipment to any person for use on managed lands shall pay any applicable fees in accordance with subsection 5I-4.002(29)(27), F.A.C., to the Service. The commercial enterprise shall post or provide all customers with copies of Service brochures containing general information governing use of the forest.
Rulemaking Authority 589.011(4) FS. Law Implemented 589.011(1), (3) FS. History–New 5-24-92, Amended 11-6-95, 5-31-04, 5-16-12, __________.
5I-4.011 Penalties for Violations.
Section 589.011(4), F.S., provides that the Florida Forest Service on behalf of the state may adopt and enforce rules necessary for the protection, utilization, occupancy, and development of state forest lands or any lands leased by or otherwise assigned to the Service for management purposes. Any person violating or otherwise failing to comply with any of the provisions of Sections 589.011(4), or 589.071 or 590.14, F.S., or rules adopted pursuant to Section 589.011(4), F.S., is guilty of a non-criminal violation as defined in Section 775.08(3), F.S., punishable only by fine not to exceed $1,000.00 $500.00.
Rulemaking Authority 589.011(4), 589.071 FS. Law Implemented 589.011(4), 589.071, 590.14 FS. History–New 5-24-92, Amended 1-19-95, 5-31-04, 5-16-12, __________.
NAME OF PERSON ORIGINATING PROPOSED RULE: James R. Karels, Director, Florida Forest Service
NAME OF AGENCY HEAD WHO APPROVED THE PROPOSED RULE: Adam H. Putnam, Commissioner of Agriculture
DATE PROPOSED RULE APPROVED BY AGENCY HEAD: May 27, 2015
DATE NOTICE OF PROPOSED RULE DEVELOPMENT PUBLISHED IN FAR: June 1, 2015
Document Information
- Comments Open:
- 6/11/2015
- Summary:
- This rulemaking adopts the revisions needed to make the rules clear to people using State Forests, and to the Florida Forest Service State Forest Managers.
- Purpose:
- The purpose and effect is to provide guidance and clarity to the public and Florida Forest Service State Forest Managers regarding the use of managed lands. Revisions provide guidance and clarity on the matters of vehicular usage, pets, service animals, vendors, and access. Additional purposes and effects are to provide flexibility to allow certain activities on managed lands with written permission which are otherwise prohibited; to provide more flexibility to District and Center Managers to ...
- Rulemaking Authority:
- 570.07(23), 589.011(4), 589.071, 589.12, F.S.
- Law:
- 589.011(3), 589.071, 590.14, F.S.
- Contact:
- Steve Bohl, 3125 Conner Blvd., Tallahassee, FL 32399-1650, 850- 681-5871.
- Related Rules: (6)
- 5I-4.002. Purpose and Definitions
- 5I-4.003. Vehicular, Animal and Pedestrian Control
- 5I-4.005. Protection of Managed Lands
- 5I-4.006. Recreational Activities and Facilities
- 5I-4.008. Vendors; Authorizations; Fees
- More ...